Created originally for a part of a philosophy grade requirement, but will probably continue after I complete the course.
It's not as easy as it seems...
Published on July 26, 2004 By Andrea Nelson In Philosophy
Let’s take a look at the question Meno presents to Socrates:

“Can you tell me, Socrates, can virtue be taught? Or is it not teachable but the result of practice, or is it neither of these, but men possess it by name in some other way?”

The fact that Meno asks this question of Socrates shows his utmost faith in Socrates; he feels that Socrates can answer it for him. But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Socrates refuses to answer the question for Meno. He turns the conversation around so that he is asking Meno the questions. It becomes an exercise in learning for Meno and for the readers.

Can you tell me, dear audience, can virtue be taught? Or is it not teachable, but the result of practice, or is it neither of these, but men possess it by name in some other way? Does anyone feel they are capable of answering this question? Or is it unanswerable and can only be pondered and discussed?

I do not like Socrates final answer to the question: “I do not mind that; we shall talk to him again, but if we were right in the way in which we spoke and investigated in this whole discussion, virtue would be neither an inborn quality nor taught, but comes to those who possess it as a gift from the gods which is not accompanied by understanding…”

However, is Socrates answer such a poor one? In a religious sense, one could say no. If one believes in higher powers whether it be several gods, God, Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, etc. it could be a completely plausible and logical answer to say that virtue is a god (small ‘g’) given gift. This could be compared to the Catholic belief that God gave us free will. Free will is a gift from God, and in a philosophical argument someone who is strongly Catholic could argue that in fact, virtue is a gift from God. A non-religious person could say this is a bad answer and that it is an easy way out of an argument (although it could start an entirely new argument about religion, the existence of a higher power, science). This is not so, because even if Socrates or in my example, a Catholic, says that virtue is a gift from the gods and cannot be learned or taught, there is still the open ended question of “what exactly is a virtue” which is another aspect of Meno and Socrates’s conversation. However, the gods argument might negate the idea that if you do not know what virtue is, can it be taught, because at this point you have already determined virtue cannot be taught or learned because it is a gift. But, once again, it is important and even interesting to try to determine what exactly virtue is.

In Meno, Socrates puts incredible pressure on our young friend to define virtue. He says, “If I do not know what something is, how could I know what qualities it possesses? This becomes an interesting and important point of the conversation. Socrates wants Meno to tell him what virtue is, before Socrates will even let on as to whether virtue can be taught or learned (it must be noted that occurs early on and Socrates only gives his answer that virtue comes from the gods at the very end of Meno). Meno begins by dividing virtues up by class, gender, and age. A woman’s virtue is different than a man’s which is different than a child’s which are different than a slave’s which are different than an old man’s. While making this point, Meno also explains what each of these virtues are. Socrates instantly counters Meno with the observation that Meno did not explain what virtue is, he only gave Socrates examples, and when one gives an example of something, like virtue, it does not mean they have explained what virtue is. An example of a book does not tell someone what a book is.

Socrates encourages Meno to find the commonality in all of his previous examples of virtue in Greek citizens.

Can we define virtue? Can we find something that connects all examples of virtues? I do not think I can define virtue without thinking my answer would somehow be torn apart by Socrates. He would find some fault in my definition or find someway to argue it. I also don’t think that with my little experience in philosophy I would be able to create a good argument to defend it. Also, when I first read Meno, I came up with my own definition of virtue, which, coincidentally, Meno himself came up with (in his own way) as well. Socrates of course argued against that possibility. My definition of virtue was desire for good in all aspects of life. This, of course, raises the question, “Do people actually desire bad things?” Because bad is relative, and if someone desires something I consider bad, they might consider their desire good, which, by my definition of virtue, would make them virtuous. So, almost immediately it is obvious my definition of virtue is not correct.

However, I must mention that Socrates does believe that virtue can be defined.

A final thought: is the definition of virtue universal and does it transcend time? Do you think the virtue Socrates and Meno were contemplating would be the same virtue we would be contemplating now?

Comments
on Jul 29, 2004
Bad is not relative.